thadipalam
11-19 10:40 PM
Hi lwpd,
Is this true?
"If you can, hold off until your I-140 gets approved. Once that happens, your 2003 priority date will stick and you can take it with you "
Thanks
-JB
You guys won't believe how glad I am to read a few posts here where some people are standing up for themselves and refusing to take bullshit from certain lousy employers. This will send a message to those kinds of employers that they can't use the immigration system and treat employees like shit while continuing to profit from these hard-working people.
abc, just one suggestion for you. If you can, hold off until your I-140 gets approved. Once that happens, your 2003 priority date will stick and you can take it with you ( USCIS internal I-140 adjudication manual for your reference ... http://www.uscis.gov/files/pressrel...h22_091206R.pdf )
I wish you all the best with your life.
lwpd
Is this true?
"If you can, hold off until your I-140 gets approved. Once that happens, your 2003 priority date will stick and you can take it with you "
Thanks
-JB
You guys won't believe how glad I am to read a few posts here where some people are standing up for themselves and refusing to take bullshit from certain lousy employers. This will send a message to those kinds of employers that they can't use the immigration system and treat employees like shit while continuing to profit from these hard-working people.
abc, just one suggestion for you. If you can, hold off until your I-140 gets approved. Once that happens, your 2003 priority date will stick and you can take it with you ( USCIS internal I-140 adjudication manual for your reference ... http://www.uscis.gov/files/pressrel...h22_091206R.pdf )
I wish you all the best with your life.
lwpd
wallpaper Skyline R34 Gt. Nissan Skyline
legal_la
07-02 06:05 PM
contributed 100 just now, my drop in the ocean, I will try to add more drops in coming days.
kumarc123
03-12 09:10 AM
I completely agree with you.. in the last 3-4 years of forming IV what lobbying efforts did the IV folk do after July 2007 fiasco?? With all the donations and money they are making from advertisements on this website what have they accomplished? they could not even have an established and reliable relationship with DOS or USCIS to get clear information out to its members?? I think it is a BIG F-A-I-L-U-R-E on the part of IV if they cannot even get some valid information let alone bringing some change in the immigration system. And when we are all discussing in anticipation of this much awaited April bulletin, what do the IV admin folk do?? Start another DONOR FORUM thread and talk about what?? B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T!! If starting a new DONOR FORUM thread is all you can do for all the donors? what good is it?? Before we go ahead and bash USCIS, IV folk have a lot of explanation to do -
1. What links do you have with USCIS?
2. What efforts are being made?
3. What is the future POA?
4. If sitting around and waiting for the next visa bulletin is all you IV leadership is doing then stop asking for DONATIONS!!
Peace!
IV needs to OPEN ITS BOOKS
And show DONORS where their money is going? Where is the sponsors money going? and what is this ORGANIZATION planning to do. IF not, one these days they will find themselves in a audit and public scrutiny.
Any yes people who says open your eyes? Have you got your GC? EAD is only a means and not the destination
PAPU, you need to explain to all IV members and disclose the books and what you are doing as IV head, and dont give me the bull, of we are working, you want our support, we want clarity and real action.
1. What links do you have with USCIS?
2. What efforts are being made?
3. What is the future POA?
4. If sitting around and waiting for the next visa bulletin is all you IV leadership is doing then stop asking for DONATIONS!!
Peace!
IV needs to OPEN ITS BOOKS
And show DONORS where their money is going? Where is the sponsors money going? and what is this ORGANIZATION planning to do. IF not, one these days they will find themselves in a audit and public scrutiny.
Any yes people who says open your eyes? Have you got your GC? EAD is only a means and not the destination
PAPU, you need to explain to all IV members and disclose the books and what you are doing as IV head, and dont give me the bull, of we are working, you want our support, we want clarity and real action.
2011 new york skyline night.
CSPAvictim
07-09 06:30 PM
I came across this law about the departmental control of numerical limitations, and I'd appreciate it if you all could post your interpretations of the same.
DOS Reg 22 CFR �42.51:
(a) Centralized control. Centralized control of the numerical limitations on immigration specified in INA 201, 202, and 203 is established in the Department. The Department shall limit the number of immigrant visas that may be issued and the number of adjustments of status that may be granted to aliens subject to these numerical limitations to a number:
(1) Not to exceed 27 percent of the world-wide total made available under INA 203(a), (b) and (c) in any of the first three quarters of any fiscal year; and
(2) Not to exceed, in any month of a fiscal year, 10% of the world-wide total made available under INA 203(a), (b) and (c) plus any balance remaining from authorizations for preceding months in the same fiscal year.
Source: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/aprqtr/pdf/22cfr42.33.pdf
Assuming that USCIS approved (based on which it supposedly requested visa numbers from DOS) 60,000+ I-485 applications between June 13 and July 2, would it or would it not be in violation of the clause in bold ?
Specifically, can anyone come up with a proper explanation of the words "plus any balance remaining from authorizations for preceding months in the same fiscal year" and why, if so is the case, USCIS may not have violated the law?
PS:People seem to be focusing on the eligibility to file the I-485 application when immigrant visa numbers are/aren't available in this thread. I am quite new to the procedures involved in processing green card applications and also to IV. If this question is out of place or silly, please pardon my naivette. I'd really appreciate it if a senior member could nevertheless answer the question.:)
Note: The information in this post is the personal opinion of the author and is not to be construed as legal advice.
DOS Reg 22 CFR �42.51:
(a) Centralized control. Centralized control of the numerical limitations on immigration specified in INA 201, 202, and 203 is established in the Department. The Department shall limit the number of immigrant visas that may be issued and the number of adjustments of status that may be granted to aliens subject to these numerical limitations to a number:
(1) Not to exceed 27 percent of the world-wide total made available under INA 203(a), (b) and (c) in any of the first three quarters of any fiscal year; and
(2) Not to exceed, in any month of a fiscal year, 10% of the world-wide total made available under INA 203(a), (b) and (c) plus any balance remaining from authorizations for preceding months in the same fiscal year.
Source: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/aprqtr/pdf/22cfr42.33.pdf
Assuming that USCIS approved (based on which it supposedly requested visa numbers from DOS) 60,000+ I-485 applications between June 13 and July 2, would it or would it not be in violation of the clause in bold ?
Specifically, can anyone come up with a proper explanation of the words "plus any balance remaining from authorizations for preceding months in the same fiscal year" and why, if so is the case, USCIS may not have violated the law?
PS:People seem to be focusing on the eligibility to file the I-485 application when immigrant visa numbers are/aren't available in this thread. I am quite new to the procedures involved in processing green card applications and also to IV. If this question is out of place or silly, please pardon my naivette. I'd really appreciate it if a senior member could nevertheless answer the question.:)
Note: The information in this post is the personal opinion of the author and is not to be construed as legal advice.
more...
MahaBharatGC
09-21 02:14 PM
Count me in.
This wait is killing us.
YES YES YES.
Yesterday was my last day of Canadian Blue Card expiry. I left it as I was able to file for I-485 during July 07 magic. I am in for whatever the fight it takes.
This EAD renewal funda is killing us...
Just does not make sense for lack of timelines on EAD Renewals, no proper insights. Why would they need to take 3 months time for renewals?:confused:
This wait is killing us.
YES YES YES.
Yesterday was my last day of Canadian Blue Card expiry. I left it as I was able to file for I-485 during July 07 magic. I am in for whatever the fight it takes.
This EAD renewal funda is killing us...
Just does not make sense for lack of timelines on EAD Renewals, no proper insights. Why would they need to take 3 months time for renewals?:confused:
unitednations
12-21 10:48 PM
This is from Murthy chat.
Question: If in the past I have been out of H1B status for 6 months (I-94 not expired), is this going to hurt my GC (or any new petitions to change / extend / adjust status)?
Answer: A person who fails to maintain status for over 180 days may have a problem obtaining the approval of the I-485, which allows a maximum of 180 days for one to be out of status under Section 245(k) of the INA, unless the person is covered under 245(i) of the INA. Sometimes, though, the fault of the employer in not paying the salary while the person is considered an employee may not pose a problem but at other times it may pose a problem. Not having pay stubs will certainly adversely impact the ability to obtain an extension or change of status from the USCIS. Jun-20-2005.
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
I had written about this in the past. When I went for local office interview; he had requested all w2's and tax returns from my initial entry shown on g-325( LAST ADDRESS OUTSIDE USA FOR MORE THEN ONE YEAR) which was 1999.
It said prove that you maintained status on each entry.
Now: i didn't have any issues but I was pretty upset that officer was going way outside the law and testing periods that he wasn't supposed to. My date of last entry before filing 485 was December 2002 and he was requesting 1999-2006.
I did inform him that he wasn't supposed to ask for this as it was outside the law. However; what I gathered is that although 245k does have some significant protection for everyone; uscis tries to go other ways in catching/snagging you. Another link was provided in this link where a person listed an employer on his g-325a but he was on bench and never got paid. USCIS was trying to deny his 485 due to fraud. Fraud overrules 24k any time.
Therefore; uscis uses many different avenues to get at other aspects; especially to get you to lie, cover up, mislead in things you don't need to but inadvertently do because you think it is problematic when it really wasn't.
The feeling i got from my interview is that is what he was exactly trying to do.
Question: If in the past I have been out of H1B status for 6 months (I-94 not expired), is this going to hurt my GC (or any new petitions to change / extend / adjust status)?
Answer: A person who fails to maintain status for over 180 days may have a problem obtaining the approval of the I-485, which allows a maximum of 180 days for one to be out of status under Section 245(k) of the INA, unless the person is covered under 245(i) of the INA. Sometimes, though, the fault of the employer in not paying the salary while the person is considered an employee may not pose a problem but at other times it may pose a problem. Not having pay stubs will certainly adversely impact the ability to obtain an extension or change of status from the USCIS. Jun-20-2005.
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
I had written about this in the past. When I went for local office interview; he had requested all w2's and tax returns from my initial entry shown on g-325( LAST ADDRESS OUTSIDE USA FOR MORE THEN ONE YEAR) which was 1999.
It said prove that you maintained status on each entry.
Now: i didn't have any issues but I was pretty upset that officer was going way outside the law and testing periods that he wasn't supposed to. My date of last entry before filing 485 was December 2002 and he was requesting 1999-2006.
I did inform him that he wasn't supposed to ask for this as it was outside the law. However; what I gathered is that although 245k does have some significant protection for everyone; uscis tries to go other ways in catching/snagging you. Another link was provided in this link where a person listed an employer on his g-325a but he was on bench and never got paid. USCIS was trying to deny his 485 due to fraud. Fraud overrules 24k any time.
Therefore; uscis uses many different avenues to get at other aspects; especially to get you to lie, cover up, mislead in things you don't need to but inadvertently do because you think it is problematic when it really wasn't.
The feeling i got from my interview is that is what he was exactly trying to do.
more...
ganguteli
03-09 11:32 PM
I like your idea.
Let us all blame IV core for not getting our greencard and having a crappy visa bulletin this month. :)
I contributed $5 in the high five campaign and I still do not have my labor cleared. I want to blame IV for that too. :)
Did you not see the FOIA action item by IV core?
Let us all blame IV core for not getting our greencard and having a crappy visa bulletin this month. :)
I contributed $5 in the high five campaign and I still do not have my labor cleared. I want to blame IV for that too. :)
Did you not see the FOIA action item by IV core?
2010 new york skyline night.
TeddyKoochu
09-10 02:01 PM
They can make a category current when Demand < Supply. So once all I-485s prior to 2007 are approved the monthly demand data they publish will show demand Prior to CY2011 = 200. So unless they use approved I-140 to determine demand , DOS will make the dates current(even if for 1 month). As long as USCIS uses pending I-485 data to determine demand, the July 2007 fiasco will keep on repeating every 3-4 years. The key here is to have USCIS provide the actual demand (people with approved I-140s). It was mentioned somewhere that the current USCIS database is not capable of sorting the I-140s by country of chargebility and hence the I-140 data can't be used to determine per country demand.
Agreed that the I140 data may not be exact due to system limitations but approximation can still work, they take up more people, EB2 ROW was current the whole of last year, FB2 is at Apr 2010. Even I140 statistics are shown on the volumes chart so I believe that the approximate numbers per country can be very easily derived or they can test the waters in small steps if they like. Since there is no guideline on this the agencies are legal in using judicious discretion.
Agreed that the I140 data may not be exact due to system limitations but approximation can still work, they take up more people, EB2 ROW was current the whole of last year, FB2 is at Apr 2010. Even I140 statistics are shown on the volumes chart so I believe that the approximate numbers per country can be very easily derived or they can test the waters in small steps if they like. Since there is no guideline on this the agencies are legal in using judicious discretion.
more...
pappu
12-27 10:02 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Permanent_Resident_Card#Other_Immigr ation_Sites
for some reason these people delete our links whenever we put it. In the past I spent a lot of time to go on each of these diff pages related to immigration, greencard, indian americans , chineese americans etc and inserted IV links in their content as well as external links but everytime the editors have deleted them. Dont know why? maybe I dont know much about wikipedia and how it works.
thanks for the initiative, go_gc_way. and thanks to all those that helped in this effort. Pls. continue to help spread the message on various sites.
for some reason these people delete our links whenever we put it. In the past I spent a lot of time to go on each of these diff pages related to immigration, greencard, indian americans , chineese americans etc and inserted IV links in their content as well as external links but everytime the editors have deleted them. Dont know why? maybe I dont know much about wikipedia and how it works.
thanks for the initiative, go_gc_way. and thanks to all those that helped in this effort. Pls. continue to help spread the message on various sites.
hair Cleveland stem cell projects
jasmin45
07-16 05:45 PM
Its interesting to see how organized they are and how arrogant their wordings are .. Looks like they have quiet a bit of influence in political spectrum.
more...
looneytunezez
06-11 12:49 PM
Sent message to my senators (CA).
hot quicken loans arena cleveland
yganreddy
07-07 03:54 AM
COngratulations. Enjoy your green.
Got approval emails yesterday.
PD Feb 2004
EB2 India
LC Approved 8/10/06
140 Approved 2/12/07
485 Filed on 6/27/07 NSC
Got approval emails yesterday.
PD Feb 2004
EB2 India
LC Approved 8/10/06
140 Approved 2/12/07
485 Filed on 6/27/07 NSC
more...
house Valentine Vintage Clip Art
Pineapple
06-13 04:15 PM
I apologize for being rude earlier to Senthil. That was perhaps out of line.
What annoys me is the misconception many have regarding hiring a non-American, and what annoys me further is the fact that many H1Bs fall for the same facile arguments made by you-know-who.
Fact is, if we define displacement as "not hiring", then ANY hiring is, by definition, a displacement of one who is not hired.
For example: Say Jane is hired for X dollars per year, because John, who is equally qualified is not interested in working at that salary. Can John claim he was displaced by someone willing to work at a lower salary? Of course he can. But here is the deal: No matter how high you peg $ X (Say 120K), or how unique Jane is (Say Jane is the only person the company could find). Now keep increasing X, and at some point a John will walk in through the door since the money is good.
Bottom line? You may think you are not displacing anyone, but you ARE unless you are the only person on the planet who can do that job. For every Jane, one can find a disgruntled John. It makes not one jot of difference if you are American or Ethiopian. The Jane/John example I gave stands regardless.
What annoys me is the misconception many have regarding hiring a non-American, and what annoys me further is the fact that many H1Bs fall for the same facile arguments made by you-know-who.
Fact is, if we define displacement as "not hiring", then ANY hiring is, by definition, a displacement of one who is not hired.
For example: Say Jane is hired for X dollars per year, because John, who is equally qualified is not interested in working at that salary. Can John claim he was displaced by someone willing to work at a lower salary? Of course he can. But here is the deal: No matter how high you peg $ X (Say 120K), or how unique Jane is (Say Jane is the only person the company could find). Now keep increasing X, and at some point a John will walk in through the door since the money is good.
Bottom line? You may think you are not displacing anyone, but you ARE unless you are the only person on the planet who can do that job. For every Jane, one can find a disgruntled John. It makes not one jot of difference if you are American or Ethiopian. The Jane/John example I gave stands regardless.
tattoo world map outline countries.
VivekAhuja
09-18 02:17 PM
Reading the posts about the economy has just shown me how ignorant many of the IV members are.
The economy is just going through it's ~10-year cycle. While it is a concern, it is NOT the end of the world. It just strenghtens USA's position in the world. Once again, it has proved that "if USA sneezes, the world catches the cold". The 10-years economic cycle follows a kind of Darwin's Law of the Fittest. The firms that are bubbled up get washed away, the economy cleans up and rebounds back. The 1990s saw it, the year ~2001 saw it with the dot.com burst and ~2009-2010 is seeing it with the mortgage burst.
While it is each one's perogative as to what you want to invest into (good time to buy stocks, or buy gold), another thing to understand is FDIC does NOT insure just 100K per account in each bank. There are multiple ways to increase this insurance to over $2 million in the same bank by opening different type of accounts or having different beneficiaries. Consult your bank for details.
No amount of govt. intervention can change the economy. It has it's own mind and will take it's own course.
There is no need to panic, pack and run.
Let the economy go through it's colon flush.
The economy is just going through it's ~10-year cycle. While it is a concern, it is NOT the end of the world. It just strenghtens USA's position in the world. Once again, it has proved that "if USA sneezes, the world catches the cold". The 10-years economic cycle follows a kind of Darwin's Law of the Fittest. The firms that are bubbled up get washed away, the economy cleans up and rebounds back. The 1990s saw it, the year ~2001 saw it with the dot.com burst and ~2009-2010 is seeing it with the mortgage burst.
While it is each one's perogative as to what you want to invest into (good time to buy stocks, or buy gold), another thing to understand is FDIC does NOT insure just 100K per account in each bank. There are multiple ways to increase this insurance to over $2 million in the same bank by opening different type of accounts or having different beneficiaries. Consult your bank for details.
No amount of govt. intervention can change the economy. It has it's own mind and will take it's own course.
There is no need to panic, pack and run.
Let the economy go through it's colon flush.
more...
pictures couple kissing silhouette
ak27
02-20 09:32 AM
I have written to my congressmen couple of times but I am yet to recieve any response. I will contact his office again this week..
Ajay
Ajay
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GCKaIntezar
12-27 02:31 PM
Just to shed some light on the mortgage scenario -
Bank of America approved me for a mortgage yesterday - the rep specifically asked for the Citizen/Perm resident question, I told him that I have a valid work visa - he asked what kind - I said H1B. He looked up my credit histoiry and approved me right there. At the end of our 30 minutes long conversation, I asked him to confirm that H1B is not an issue - he confirmed that it wasn't - as long as I have sufficient funds in my acccount, a good cash flow, and a "very good" credit history.
The subprime mortgage industry is on the brink of collapse - due to all those foreclosures. These institutions have had a pretty relaxed lending schemes - especially for the intereset only and no-down payment ARMs.
Just to clarify on all the confusion:
If you are legally here i.e. on H1B yu can have any account and any mortgage. I can pretty much vouch for it because I am one of the persons in the bank incharge of enforcing the credit laws. The only requirement while giving a mortgage is what kind of credit scores and history you have. BOA is quite conservative in giving out loans while someother smaller institutions are not so conservative and hence the rejection from one and acceptance by the other.
For giving mortgage to illegals I do not know any reputable institution doing so. Yes there is always the grapevine.
I recently travelled to Delhi from SF using British Air in Dec. I chaged from Terminal 1 to terminal 4 while going and reverse while coming. Nobody asked for any visa, as far as I know it is not required. It was not required before then the requirement came in and now it is no longer there.
But I do have a valid visa on my passport.
About Hongkong it takes approximately 5 minutes to get a 15 day visa and the process is very smooth.
Singapore does not require any visa.
No visa for Germany, Middleeast and most of the East Asian stops.
Bank of America approved me for a mortgage yesterday - the rep specifically asked for the Citizen/Perm resident question, I told him that I have a valid work visa - he asked what kind - I said H1B. He looked up my credit histoiry and approved me right there. At the end of our 30 minutes long conversation, I asked him to confirm that H1B is not an issue - he confirmed that it wasn't - as long as I have sufficient funds in my acccount, a good cash flow, and a "very good" credit history.
The subprime mortgage industry is on the brink of collapse - due to all those foreclosures. These institutions have had a pretty relaxed lending schemes - especially for the intereset only and no-down payment ARMs.
Just to clarify on all the confusion:
If you are legally here i.e. on H1B yu can have any account and any mortgage. I can pretty much vouch for it because I am one of the persons in the bank incharge of enforcing the credit laws. The only requirement while giving a mortgage is what kind of credit scores and history you have. BOA is quite conservative in giving out loans while someother smaller institutions are not so conservative and hence the rejection from one and acceptance by the other.
For giving mortgage to illegals I do not know any reputable institution doing so. Yes there is always the grapevine.
I recently travelled to Delhi from SF using British Air in Dec. I chaged from Terminal 1 to terminal 4 while going and reverse while coming. Nobody asked for any visa, as far as I know it is not required. It was not required before then the requirement came in and now it is no longer there.
But I do have a valid visa on my passport.
About Hongkong it takes approximately 5 minutes to get a 15 day visa and the process is very smooth.
Singapore does not require any visa.
No visa for Germany, Middleeast and most of the East Asian stops.
more...
makeup digestive outline diagram
alex99
10-28 06:46 PM
Please participate in the Poll
girlfriend Price middot; CLEVELAND
needhelp!
02-03 12:33 PM
IV already has this as part of the agenda so why try to reinvent the wheel? Currently IV has requested our active involvement in trying to expand our member base to make our voice stronger.
We have professional help to analyze the current political situation to decide on the best course of action that will benefit all members. A lot of background work has to be done before IV can announce a call campaign or letter campaign.
Guys,
I know ROW country may not like this thread, but look at EB-3 India or China, put yourself in our shoes and than you may realize how unfair this country is. In this unprecedented financial turmoil, I feel there are very remote chances for CIR or any package which increase immigration etc would pass, I am taking this initiative to gather as many people I can and go to washington. Again this is not an IV effort. If you are with me , you can spare some time or few days in Washington, please PM me. our sole agenda is bring a 2 line bill to remove country quota...
We have professional help to analyze the current political situation to decide on the best course of action that will benefit all members. A lot of background work has to be done before IV can announce a call campaign or letter campaign.
Guys,
I know ROW country may not like this thread, but look at EB-3 India or China, put yourself in our shoes and than you may realize how unfair this country is. In this unprecedented financial turmoil, I feel there are very remote chances for CIR or any package which increase immigration etc would pass, I am taking this initiative to gather as many people I can and go to washington. Again this is not an IV effort. If you are with me , you can spare some time or few days in Washington, please PM me. our sole agenda is bring a 2 line bill to remove country quota...
hairstyles Happy Easter Cleveland!
k_ek
11-22 12:36 PM
Hi guys
my question is same as in the previous post of Arun.
I wanted to know if the I 140 was approoved from previous employer and if u change the job and restart the gc again can u stiil use the old I 140 prority dates(even if the previous employer revoked the old I140).
thanx
kek
my question is same as in the previous post of Arun.
I wanted to know if the I 140 was approoved from previous employer and if u change the job and restart the gc again can u stiil use the old I 140 prority dates(even if the previous employer revoked the old I140).
thanx
kek
gk_2000
08-10 08:56 PM
so what you are basically asking is give gc to everybody who wants. country quota is meaningless (we know that!). qualifications are worthless. nobel prize or manual laborer (all are humans!). illegals also should be given gc without any reservations!
so when we start a campaign try to be reasonable. don't just 'focus' on our 'wishes'. think creatively how to solve the problem we are all facing, by understanding the basics of the whole process.
If you are trying to open philosophical topic I suggest we do it in a separate thread, because that debate will be a very long one.
BTW do you know the deal with the bees? Bees are just insects, right? But did you know that you are living here on this earth because of them? If the country is filled with geniuses then what is the worth of genius? Therefore dont compare humans in this way
For the record, illegals do end up with green cards. One should have faith, like they do
so when we start a campaign try to be reasonable. don't just 'focus' on our 'wishes'. think creatively how to solve the problem we are all facing, by understanding the basics of the whole process.
If you are trying to open philosophical topic I suggest we do it in a separate thread, because that debate will be a very long one.
BTW do you know the deal with the bees? Bees are just insects, right? But did you know that you are living here on this earth because of them? If the country is filled with geniuses then what is the worth of genius? Therefore dont compare humans in this way
For the record, illegals do end up with green cards. One should have faith, like they do
centaur
08-15 05:34 PM
I think its not going to budge after this for 3 months or so, till they calculate all the applications received and do the math. Hopefully it will move forwards then, however (less likely) it can move backwards too ( I have seen strangest patterns with the bulletins)