chanduv23
01-18 11:39 AM
Same thing happened to me, was driving on Adirondocks and there was a border post 100 miles well within the border. The border security agents asked us for passports and we did not have , all we had was our driver lisences and they did not want to accept it. They took us aside and we waited for 15 min, they verified us in their system and for some reason my info was old whereas my wife's was latest , then they asked me who my employer is and searched and found my latest info, they gave me a printout of the law that states that all non US citizens must carry passports and immigration documents all times and if we don't do it, we can be sentenced to jail or a $100 fine.
wallpaper Eagles of Death Metal - Smalls
tooclose
07-13 07:14 AM
What is the need for all this ? The visa bulletin is out but no one cares to read it I guess. Every bulletin has these or words to this effect.
"Only applicants who have a priority date earlier than the cut-off date may be allotted a number."
So the date that you see in the table is NOT eligible for visa numbers.
Thanks for the information. I believe I have to wait for another month to get any updates from the Sep visa bulletin or wait till same time next year since my PD is Mar-06.
Congrats to all to have received it and good luck to those who have become current !
"Only applicants who have a priority date earlier than the cut-off date may be allotted a number."
So the date that you see in the table is NOT eligible for visa numbers.
Thanks for the information. I believe I have to wait for another month to get any updates from the Sep visa bulletin or wait till same time next year since my PD is Mar-06.
Congrats to all to have received it and good luck to those who have become current !
rsayed
11-20 11:13 PM
Guys.
Please do not mind, my writing this - I honestly think we should stop writing insensible comments like "sick people getting frustrated" and the like...
IV is a professional not for profit outfit, with a set agenda. We should work together towards achieving our goal, through legal, available channels.
If things work out - great! If they don't, it's disappointing but not the end of the world.
People who chose to stay and wait longer for their Permanent Residency will do so; those who cannot (for whatever reasons) will find other alternatives...
Let's not make this a platform for venting out our frustrations.
Please do not mind, my writing this - I honestly think we should stop writing insensible comments like "sick people getting frustrated" and the like...
IV is a professional not for profit outfit, with a set agenda. We should work together towards achieving our goal, through legal, available channels.
If things work out - great! If they don't, it's disappointing but not the end of the world.
People who chose to stay and wait longer for their Permanent Residency will do so; those who cannot (for whatever reasons) will find other alternatives...
Let's not make this a platform for venting out our frustrations.
2011 Tags: death wallpaper
wellwishergc
07-13 10:54 AM
Right on! You are absolutely right! It just needs people to amplify their vision. Even if there is a hidden agenda for somebody else, why shouldn't you be happy if it benefits both you and the other person?
As anyone in this forums know about this "may-a-times-told" joke about a bunch of people in an airplane that have to make some hard decision on dropping out some of thier own to save the flying aircraft. As one by one jumps out of the aircraft for a noble cause of saving the other person - our own Desi pushed the next one crying " Gandhiji ki Jai" - saving himself instead of others.
The moral of the story (which people never really bothered to infer) was that our Desi folks are trigger ready to pull someone down when it comes to me versus them. I hate to stereotype people - based on some unfounded and preconceived notions , but the more and more postings I see like this, it just reinforces my beliefs that we are still gullible enough to be divided no matter what the past had taught us.
I enjoy visiting IV forums - because of all the Indian based forums - this was one place where people came together rallied for a cause - something that I could not find in any other place. Now I am seeing some folks postings that spites and pits one against another - without understanding the real issue.
What or why does it matter if Murthy sending a letter to DHS or its Director is all about getting credit for her? Why do we have to think that its "us versus them" within our group - when we are all fighting for one single cause?
Need some civility here - Please!
As anyone in this forums know about this "may-a-times-told" joke about a bunch of people in an airplane that have to make some hard decision on dropping out some of thier own to save the flying aircraft. As one by one jumps out of the aircraft for a noble cause of saving the other person - our own Desi pushed the next one crying " Gandhiji ki Jai" - saving himself instead of others.
The moral of the story (which people never really bothered to infer) was that our Desi folks are trigger ready to pull someone down when it comes to me versus them. I hate to stereotype people - based on some unfounded and preconceived notions , but the more and more postings I see like this, it just reinforces my beliefs that we are still gullible enough to be divided no matter what the past had taught us.
I enjoy visiting IV forums - because of all the Indian based forums - this was one place where people came together rallied for a cause - something that I could not find in any other place. Now I am seeing some folks postings that spites and pits one against another - without understanding the real issue.
What or why does it matter if Murthy sending a letter to DHS or its Director is all about getting credit for her? Why do we have to think that its "us versus them" within our group - when we are all fighting for one single cause?
Need some civility here - Please!
more...
xyzgc
01-16 05:55 PM
you buy a house when you don't have your green card, reduced to a single income with a new born, what else is gonna happen? Go buy BMW 3 series if you don't have one. Go invest thousands of dollars in stocks and then cry how your stock portfolio got wiped out (stocks will recover but by that time you'll have sleep disorder). I'm sorry to hear abt your daughter though, its not your fault but everything else is.
During 2001-3 recession, the time when the valley was hardest hit, one of my friends was forced to go India and wanted to leave his car behind because he came in 2001 and left a year later. People think when they come to the US of A, they fulfilled their life's ambition, not realizing their temporary status and immediately start buying new expensive cars and living it up! In another thread, my recommendation has been to buy a house rather than keep worrying over prices to reach rock bottom, but not unless you are green with a dual income and plans to live long term. How can you pan to live long term without being a resident is something I don't understand..
During 2001-3 recession, the time when the valley was hardest hit, one of my friends was forced to go India and wanted to leave his car behind because he came in 2001 and left a year later. People think when they come to the US of A, they fulfilled their life's ambition, not realizing their temporary status and immediately start buying new expensive cars and living it up! In another thread, my recommendation has been to buy a house rather than keep worrying over prices to reach rock bottom, but not unless you are green with a dual income and plans to live long term. How can you pan to live long term without being a resident is something I don't understand..
royus77
08-10 09:10 PM
If you are trying to open philosophical topic I suggest we do it in a separate thread, because that debate will be a very long one.
BTW do you know the deal with the bees? Bees are just insects, right? But did you know that you are living here on this earth because of them? If the country is filled with geniuses then what is the worth of genius? Therefore dont compare humans in this way
Most of the Eb3's are either working for big companies who won't do GC in EB2 or not qualified for eb2 ( so called 3 year degree ) and enjoying all these years when they know clearly eb3 is not going any where ...what in the world prevent them to move up the ladder and porting their PDs ...They dont want to take any risk and just show their frustation in internet forums
As some one in the forum quoted "There is a path of joy and there is the path of pleasure. Pondering on them, the wise (eb1 ,pre-approved labor and eb2 inorder ) chooses the path of joy; the fool takes the path of pleasure."
BTW do you know the deal with the bees? Bees are just insects, right? But did you know that you are living here on this earth because of them? If the country is filled with geniuses then what is the worth of genius? Therefore dont compare humans in this way
Most of the Eb3's are either working for big companies who won't do GC in EB2 or not qualified for eb2 ( so called 3 year degree ) and enjoying all these years when they know clearly eb3 is not going any where ...what in the world prevent them to move up the ladder and porting their PDs ...They dont want to take any risk and just show their frustation in internet forums
As some one in the forum quoted "There is a path of joy and there is the path of pleasure. Pondering on them, the wise (eb1 ,pre-approved labor and eb2 inorder ) chooses the path of joy; the fool takes the path of pleasure."
more...
xyzgc
01-18 12:53 PM
I agree that with apinto and gooblywoobly that risk assessment should be done by everybody. risk calculation can be best be approximate. But most people paint the best case and leave it there in order to enjoy material comforts.
prioritydate and ajay, I didn't give you reds.
When the adversity strikes, people write long stories without a moral at the end. The moral of the story is don't sign up for heavy loans and mortgages, when you are a temp . That's not your venture (risk) capital that you can just burn up like startups did in the silicon valley and ruined it.
Yes, immigration sucks but this is not a moral of the present story. If you make a film like that,where you are skating on thin ice, folks will laugh at you. Make a better film which says you can't buy a house or invest here, even if you can afford it and you cannot accept job promotions or change jobs due to restrictive immigration policies.
And yes, if you leave your cars and your houses behind and run off to home country with your tails between your asses, you deserve to be extradited and put behind bars. You know why. My companies has high paying financial institutions as its customers. They have slashed their IT budgets due to folks like you (loan defaulters) and now I find myself going several rounds of layoffs, despite no fault of mine. Its making me loose my sleep.:mad:
prioritydate and ajay, I didn't give you reds.
When the adversity strikes, people write long stories without a moral at the end. The moral of the story is don't sign up for heavy loans and mortgages, when you are a temp . That's not your venture (risk) capital that you can just burn up like startups did in the silicon valley and ruined it.
Yes, immigration sucks but this is not a moral of the present story. If you make a film like that,where you are skating on thin ice, folks will laugh at you. Make a better film which says you can't buy a house or invest here, even if you can afford it and you cannot accept job promotions or change jobs due to restrictive immigration policies.
And yes, if you leave your cars and your houses behind and run off to home country with your tails between your asses, you deserve to be extradited and put behind bars. You know why. My companies has high paying financial institutions as its customers. They have slashed their IT budgets due to folks like you (loan defaulters) and now I find myself going several rounds of layoffs, despite no fault of mine. Its making me loose my sleep.:mad:
2010 Genre: Death Metal
mallu
02-16 12:23 PM
......This per country cap law is very much like the tax code. If you change it to favor one class of people, you end up screwing everyone else. ...
Currently, do chinese and Indians form a significant part of US population to affect diversity ? Just curious. I think one should start analyzing current US population and tabulate the % based on country of origin. Let us start with folks from UK, Italy, Ireland, Germany , Poland,..., India, China, ... . If it is found that some sections are less represented, let USA allow more into that category. True diversity.
Currently, do chinese and Indians form a significant part of US population to affect diversity ? Just curious. I think one should start analyzing current US population and tabulate the % based on country of origin. Let us start with folks from UK, Italy, Ireland, Germany , Poland,..., India, China, ... . If it is found that some sections are less represented, let USA allow more into that category. True diversity.
more...
svr_76
06-10 02:04 PM
exactly..and our best approach would be to also reach other lobbying/groups that represents the employers impact by this to determine a directed/specific approach.
hair Angel of death
sammas
07-12 05:16 PM
Where does it say in the bulletin that it will move in the next bulletin?
QUOTE=sammas;1968386]Sorry to say this but 1st March is not considered. Hopefully your PD will be current in next Sep 2010 bulletin. Good Luck![/QUOTE]
Calgirl,
If you look at my post, I mentioned the word "HOPEFULLY" and also I did not say that it is mentioned in the current bulletin. I was just trying to be OPTIMISTIC.
QUOTE=sammas;1968386]Sorry to say this but 1st March is not considered. Hopefully your PD will be current in next Sep 2010 bulletin. Good Luck![/QUOTE]
Calgirl,
If you look at my post, I mentioned the word "HOPEFULLY" and also I did not say that it is mentioned in the current bulletin. I was just trying to be OPTIMISTIC.
more...
bskrishna
07-02 01:30 AM
i support
hot bludgeoning metal force to
chanduv23
03-07 06:23 AM
From what I understand, Rajiv and Sheela are highly experienced and know AC21 in detail. They have seen successful AC21 cases and thats the reason they are pretty confident.
It is always safe to keep all paperwork intact and updating USCIS during job change but there is also possibility that it increases burden if you keep changing multiple jobs.
A good way of invoking AC21 is
(1) Have the Attorney prepare the letter template - Attorney will make sure the letter is right.
(2) have it signed from your employer - this should not be a problem - I have noticed that employers have issues with h1b visa because they require extensive paperwork and money, but signing a letter must not be an issue.
A lot of employers are not aware of AC21/EAD and may get worried. But there is absolutely no issue. All you do is to educate them. So many people have started using EAD and changing jobs and slowly eployers will understand this concept.
It is always safe to keep all paperwork intact and updating USCIS during job change but there is also possibility that it increases burden if you keep changing multiple jobs.
A good way of invoking AC21 is
(1) Have the Attorney prepare the letter template - Attorney will make sure the letter is right.
(2) have it signed from your employer - this should not be a problem - I have noticed that employers have issues with h1b visa because they require extensive paperwork and money, but signing a letter must not be an issue.
A lot of employers are not aware of AC21/EAD and may get worried. But there is absolutely no issue. All you do is to educate them. So many people have started using EAD and changing jobs and slowly eployers will understand this concept.
more...
house of music: Death metal,
new_gc
12-17 03:25 PM
My labor is filed in EB3 , and i am awaiting Certification.
My PD is Nov 2007.
I dont feel that i am gonna get even EAD in the next 10 years, with the current delays,unless something major changes.
Any hopes??
i myself am new to all this...but when i surveyed vb's from 1997..it was made current every 2.5 years...and i guess if not stuck in namecheck everything will be fine....and with current situation hopefully something good happens.....
My PD is Nov 2007.
I dont feel that i am gonna get even EAD in the next 10 years, with the current delays,unless something major changes.
Any hopes??
i myself am new to all this...but when i surveyed vb's from 1997..it was made current every 2.5 years...and i guess if not stuck in namecheck everything will be fine....and with current situation hopefully something good happens.....
tattoo Death Metal Face
glus
09-19 11:02 AM
This must be done. Also, we could include flags of all the member nationalities, to show this website is an international one. So if we have members from 20 different countries, this should be clearly shown. Guys, the problem is not only for indians, it is also for the others like me.
G
G
more...
pictures iPhone Wallpaper — Metal Death
Imm_Exploited
03-15 09:52 PM
I wonder who wants to take credit for the elimination of the labor substitution provision that has been (mis) used by the immigrant community as well as some employers. Labor substitution was one of the reasons for the back and forth of priority dates movement. Thankfully, effective July 2007, the labor substitution rule has been eliminated.
The immigration system was more of screwed-up one till March 2005 (not that it is no more a screwed-up system now) when the PERM was introduced. With the introduction of PERM, the priority dates were common for EB labor certification nation-wide. Prior to March 2005, we had a screwed-up policy of state-wise labor-certification backlog where those who filed from states like Maine or Nebraska had an advantage of getting not only the approval of labor certification (form ETA 750-A/750-B or ETA 9089) faster but also having the Green Card in hand much sooner than those who filed from other states.
Though the introduction of PERM, removal of labor-substitution, and the 180-day rule for name check have noteworthy and life-saving benefits for immigrants, there needs to be more transparency from DOS/USCIS on how the EB GCs are allotted or wasted unused.
IE
The immigration system was more of screwed-up one till March 2005 (not that it is no more a screwed-up system now) when the PERM was introduced. With the introduction of PERM, the priority dates were common for EB labor certification nation-wide. Prior to March 2005, we had a screwed-up policy of state-wise labor-certification backlog where those who filed from states like Maine or Nebraska had an advantage of getting not only the approval of labor certification (form ETA 750-A/750-B or ETA 9089) faster but also having the Green Card in hand much sooner than those who filed from other states.
Though the introduction of PERM, removal of labor-substitution, and the 180-day rule for name check have noteworthy and life-saving benefits for immigrants, there needs to be more transparency from DOS/USCIS on how the EB GCs are allotted or wasted unused.
IE
dresses of death metal. Wallpaper
pappu
07-01 06:11 PM
Everyone is busy partying.
No we are not partying. Welcome to IV. Please update your profile with full information. Thanks.
No we are not partying. Welcome to IV. Please update your profile with full information. Thanks.
more...
makeup death metal wallpaper.
gc_in_30_yrs
07-17 10:48 AM
Sanjay,
I did not find Point Number 2 in their website that you mentioned here. Can you post link to it? It may be that they removed it now, or you might understood something differently.
thanks.
gc_in_30_yrs.
Following up on the NYTimes article about the NumbersUSA group, I visited their website and saw that they have a free FAX program where they can easily send faxes to their senators.
One of their fax letters is below, which is a complete mis-representation of truth - look at point #2.
================================
Dear [This fax will go to Your U.S. Senators and U.S. Representative ]
I oppose any increase in the annual H-1B visa cap, including those in the SKIL Act. I am counting on you to oppose it.
Here are just a few reasons why I hope you will oppose the SKIL Act:
(1) The six-year visas allow foreign workers to bring in their families, and guarantee thousands of anchor babies.
(2) H-1B salaries are tax-exempt - no FICA, no federal or state income taxes. They can live at the same level as tax-paying Americans at a lower cost. Therefore, Congress allows foreigners to "low-ball" American workers.
(3) H-1Bs can leave the job they came to fill and seek other jobs, not necessarily in the "hard to fill" category.
(4) Most H-1Bs are of a "protected" ethnic group, so H-1Bs have an affirmative action preference when competing with Americans for the same jobs.
The result of the SKIL Act would be to further depress the wages of Americans working in high-tech and scientific fields and to cause additional job displacement for those workers.
Sincerely, [Your Name Will Appear Here]
==============================================
Is there any way we could let the senators know that this is complete lie, misinformation and mis-representation of facts?. We should also let the senators know that the credibility of these organizations are questionable and following the news/faxes from these organizations would in turn put the credibility of these senators at a BIG RISK. We also should let the senators know that these groups are artificially "hiking" up the count by sending in duplicate faxes.
Also, I recommend creating a similar page in IV website, where we can have an automated 1-2-3 STEP fax facility where we can automatically fax a letter to senators. It should be as simple as selecting the state and pressing the Send Fax button. Please let me know if you need any programming help from me.
Thanks,
Sanjay.
I did not find Point Number 2 in their website that you mentioned here. Can you post link to it? It may be that they removed it now, or you might understood something differently.
thanks.
gc_in_30_yrs.
Following up on the NYTimes article about the NumbersUSA group, I visited their website and saw that they have a free FAX program where they can easily send faxes to their senators.
One of their fax letters is below, which is a complete mis-representation of truth - look at point #2.
================================
Dear [This fax will go to Your U.S. Senators and U.S. Representative ]
I oppose any increase in the annual H-1B visa cap, including those in the SKIL Act. I am counting on you to oppose it.
Here are just a few reasons why I hope you will oppose the SKIL Act:
(1) The six-year visas allow foreign workers to bring in their families, and guarantee thousands of anchor babies.
(2) H-1B salaries are tax-exempt - no FICA, no federal or state income taxes. They can live at the same level as tax-paying Americans at a lower cost. Therefore, Congress allows foreigners to "low-ball" American workers.
(3) H-1Bs can leave the job they came to fill and seek other jobs, not necessarily in the "hard to fill" category.
(4) Most H-1Bs are of a "protected" ethnic group, so H-1Bs have an affirmative action preference when competing with Americans for the same jobs.
The result of the SKIL Act would be to further depress the wages of Americans working in high-tech and scientific fields and to cause additional job displacement for those workers.
Sincerely, [Your Name Will Appear Here]
==============================================
Is there any way we could let the senators know that this is complete lie, misinformation and mis-representation of facts?. We should also let the senators know that the credibility of these organizations are questionable and following the news/faxes from these organizations would in turn put the credibility of these senators at a BIG RISK. We also should let the senators know that these groups are artificially "hiking" up the count by sending in duplicate faxes.
Also, I recommend creating a similar page in IV website, where we can have an automated 1-2-3 STEP fax facility where we can automatically fax a letter to senators. It should be as simple as selecting the state and pressing the Send Fax button. Please let me know if you need any programming help from me.
Thanks,
Sanjay.
girlfriend wallpapers, metal
hpandey
04-09 05:41 PM
On the same note, Kumarc123, it is hard to see them working with 2001 EB3-India category for more than 5 years. 245(i) or not...still 5 years...how about that.
Anyway, my point is let us leave predictions. USCIS gave their predictions way back in their Jan 2010 bulletin. Maybe we all should stick with what dates they gave us than we trying to predict.
Now another venting, more calculations, more uproar everything will continue for 1 more week from our members...:rolleyes:
I completely agree with you . For five years EB3 is stuck in 2001 that means people who came here 10 years back are still waiting. Something needs to be done by someone somewhere but I guess no one has any idea who can ( except the congress ) .
All of my friends about 10-15 of them who came with me in 2000-2001 timeframe got their GC's and their citizenships in EB3 ( none in EB2 ) and I am still hanging .
I wonder what was that which made their application go by light speed and my application go into a blackhole :)
Anyway, my point is let us leave predictions. USCIS gave their predictions way back in their Jan 2010 bulletin. Maybe we all should stick with what dates they gave us than we trying to predict.
Now another venting, more calculations, more uproar everything will continue for 1 more week from our members...:rolleyes:
I completely agree with you . For five years EB3 is stuck in 2001 that means people who came here 10 years back are still waiting. Something needs to be done by someone somewhere but I guess no one has any idea who can ( except the congress ) .
All of my friends about 10-15 of them who came with me in 2000-2001 timeframe got their GC's and their citizenships in EB3 ( none in EB2 ) and I am still hanging .
I wonder what was that which made their application go by light speed and my application go into a blackhole :)
hairstyles death metal wallpapers. bands
perm2gc
01-02 05:58 PM
Posted about IV on www.denverindians.com
http://denverindians.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=9&TopicID=152&PagePosition=1&ThreadPage=1
Thanks jonty_11
http://denverindians.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=9&TopicID=152&PagePosition=1&ThreadPage=1
Thanks jonty_11
vandanaverdia
09-11 12:04 PM
Help IV help you...
Come to DC....
Lets join hands & lets be heard!!!!
GET UP!!!
STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS!!
Come to DC....
Lets join hands & lets be heard!!!!
GET UP!!!
STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS!!
paskal
01-28 11:34 AM
i hear a lot of complaints from you and i do understand your frustration.
i also seem to realize that you want a lot and are holding on to anything you might give in return.
work like lobbying is done in the background- and you seem to know that. it is not the time to send web faxes. last time an update came there was a war here, and there has been an iv newsletter in the new year. unnecessary information provided publicly can backfire on us in the worst way possible. incidentally you are further wrong- lawmaker contacts are taking place and updates are being given- in the state chapters. repeatedly, members have been begged top join a state chapter, or if one does not exist, to help start it. have you joined one? i humbly suggest you do. you may see a lot more action there- and maybe actually do something, rather than constantly whining here that no one is updating you. in our state chapter teleconference an iv core member updated us. subsequently another core member has posted mails on the group with advice and suggestions and resources.
i hate writing posts like this or even responding to posts like this. please understand that people like me who are trying to get things moving are as frustrated as you are, because we can't get enough support.
we are not iv core. and they have full time jobs and families. still, they are traveling, contacting lawmakers, helping and updating state chapters and coordinating with lobbyists and friendly organizations, getting prepared for upcoming legislative action.
if your $20 is dependent on their making more time for you, WITHOUT you making any time for iv except to complain, then maybe it's best in your pocket. you seem to forget, and i have said this before, it's not iv as an organization that will derive any benefit from the money- it is YOU and ME and EVERY OTHER PERSON STUCK IN RETROGRESSION.
so please help yourself. this is not a free lunch. if your money is so valuable, make time. but do something- add members - and then, your complaints will begin to have some legitimacy in other's eyes. if you are doing all these things already, i apologize- but i doubt it- you would be complaining less once you understood how hard it really is to move people off their butts.
enough said and thanks for reading.
i also seem to realize that you want a lot and are holding on to anything you might give in return.
work like lobbying is done in the background- and you seem to know that. it is not the time to send web faxes. last time an update came there was a war here, and there has been an iv newsletter in the new year. unnecessary information provided publicly can backfire on us in the worst way possible. incidentally you are further wrong- lawmaker contacts are taking place and updates are being given- in the state chapters. repeatedly, members have been begged top join a state chapter, or if one does not exist, to help start it. have you joined one? i humbly suggest you do. you may see a lot more action there- and maybe actually do something, rather than constantly whining here that no one is updating you. in our state chapter teleconference an iv core member updated us. subsequently another core member has posted mails on the group with advice and suggestions and resources.
i hate writing posts like this or even responding to posts like this. please understand that people like me who are trying to get things moving are as frustrated as you are, because we can't get enough support.
we are not iv core. and they have full time jobs and families. still, they are traveling, contacting lawmakers, helping and updating state chapters and coordinating with lobbyists and friendly organizations, getting prepared for upcoming legislative action.
if your $20 is dependent on their making more time for you, WITHOUT you making any time for iv except to complain, then maybe it's best in your pocket. you seem to forget, and i have said this before, it's not iv as an organization that will derive any benefit from the money- it is YOU and ME and EVERY OTHER PERSON STUCK IN RETROGRESSION.
so please help yourself. this is not a free lunch. if your money is so valuable, make time. but do something- add members - and then, your complaints will begin to have some legitimacy in other's eyes. if you are doing all these things already, i apologize- but i doubt it- you would be complaining less once you understood how hard it really is to move people off their butts.
enough said and thanks for reading.